This belief is quite unique to Christianity; I'm not aware of any other Christian denomination promoting plurality of Gods. But at one time, missionaries did not routinely present it during their discussions with investigators. Consequently, many people who joined the LDS Church did not learn of this belief until AFTER they joined the Church. While most accepted it, a few reacted badly, ultimately left the Church, and even cited this belief as a primary motive for their apostasy.
Consequently, it is important to me that any prospective convert know of this belief and understand it in advance before deciding to join the Church. But using the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price to convince the average person may not work, since Mormons are the only Christians who consider these works to be authoritative. So we must go to the Bible, which is the common scriptural standard of all Christians, to determine if there is Biblical corroboration of the plurality of gods.
And behold, there is plenty of corroboration. Below are listed a number of Biblical verses, according to the King James Version, which clearly proclaim the plurality of Gods:
John 10:
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Of course, in this context, the Jews whom he addressed were obviously not gods at the time, but what Jesus was acknowledging is that, as humans, they were embryonic gods in training. They'd taken on spirit bodies, maxed out their possibilities in the spirit world, then came down here to overlay their spirit bodies with physical bodies for the critical next step. This is because our Heavenly Father, like all other gods, is a resurrected celestial being with a celestialized physical body seamlessly integrated with a spirit body. Consequently, to continue our eternal progress, we likewise had to take on a physical body in a mortal environment just like the Father once did.
Now here are other Biblical verses:
Deuteronomy 10:17: “For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, . . .”
Psalms 136:2: “O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.”
Revelation 17:14: “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: . . .”
1 Corinthians 8: 4–6: “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
So there is ample Biblical corroboration of plurality of gods. If there was only one, why would there be repeated references to "god of gods" and "lord or lords". Of course, to allay any confusion, I Corinthians resolves it by proclaiming that, although there are many gods, we only worship one.
And Matthew 6:9 tells us which one to worship, and gives us a sample format on how to talk to Him.
Of course, when many mainstream Christians are presented with this information, they start sputtering and saying that the Bible doesn't "mean what it says", even if in the previous breath, they proclaim the Bible to be the "inerrant Word of God". They want to set aside these "inerrant" verses from their "inerrant" Bible because it doesn't corroborate their personal theology. But if the Bible is so "inerrant", doesn't it mean that ALL of it is inerrant? Even if you believe the Bible is merely authoritative rather than inerrant, doesn't that mean that ALL of it is authoritative?
Yes, we Mormons freely proclaim that many of the plain and precious truths of the Bible to have been lost, and the Eighth Article of Faith in part states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God so far as it is translated correctly,..." , but we have adopted the King James Version as our standard for the time being, recognizing that it is merely authoritative rather than inerrant. If one considers scripture which was recorded by imperfect human beings to be inerrant, one is ascribing perfection to an imperfect product of imperfect human beings. Imperfection cannot produce perfection. Consequently, we prefer to describe the scriptures we use as "authoritative" rather than "inerrant", which acknowledges their imperfection but also proclaims their authority. We worship the Lawgiver, not the Law.
Of course, I anticipate that some wanker might now be tempted to ask "Who is our Heavenly Father's God"? The answer is that we don't know and haven't been told. No one who has ever walked the face of the earth, no matter how holy, has been given this information. Why? Because we don't need to know it. It is not an essential doctrine of salvation. We are given only the information we need to know to begin the journey back to heaven and to our Father's realms. Besides, Matthew 6:9 tells us that we only worship OUR God, so why would we need to know the specific identitites of any other gods? It is sufficient simply to know that there are multitudes of gods in the heavenlies and leave it at that.
By the way, the doctrine of "plurality of gods" is not one of those "plain and precious truths" which were lost. It's been sitting in your Bible all this time. Perhaps you ought to be asking your pastor or priest why he has not been preaching it.
8 comments:
Here are a few other selections from the Bible that a seeker should consider:
"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior" (Isaiah 43:10-11)
*According to this verse, how many Gods are there?
Another:
"This is what the Lord says-Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it (Isaiah 44:6-7).
*According to this verse, how many Gods are there?
"You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one" (Isaiah 44:8)
It's important to understand that if we don't get the nature of God right, nothing in our belief system will be right.
To the moderator; will you have the courage to give the entire picture or will you be deceitful by omission.
Appreciate your input, Anonymous, but bear in mind those references come from the SAME Bible as the references I cited. Since Christ is not divided, His word cannot be divided, either.
I would have to examine the context of the verses you cited to determine what the intent and purpose was. Note that the Old Testament Israelis had a penchant for rushing off and worshipping idols of stone and wood at the drop of a hat, and so God did not find it in His interest or their interest to emphasize the plurality of Gods with them. Exposing them to such doctrine would have backfired, merely reinforcing their idol-worshipping tendencies.
The nature of God is not really the question here. We appear to agree that He is eternal and onmipotent. The real question is whether or not there is more than one. As I also pointed out, if we abide by Matthew 6:9, we cannot go wrong because we'll be praying to the right one.
Sorry, but you're going to have to go back and study your Mormon doctrine a little more closely. Mormons do not believe that God is eternal. They believe that God is created by a mother god-father god union and that God was once a man that progressed to becoming a god. Mormons do not subscribe to the Jewish or Christian view of God's attributes. The Mormon god is limited. Biblical Christians believe that God is infinite, eternal and unchangable. God is the source of His own life. The Biblical Christian view is that God is omnipresence, omniscient, and in omnipotent. That is not the Mormon view. The problem that Mormons have is that they do not have a systematic theology and are stuck with the musings of a variety of their leaders, prophets and apostles.
Anonymous - there are two reasons we consider God "eternal".
First, He dwells in the dimension known as "Eternity", where time as we know it ceases to exist. Thus He is considered "eternal".
Second, He, like the rest of us, has existed in one form or another eternally. We have been taught to believe that all of us began as unorganized intelligences, then were given the opportunity to take on spirit tabernacles, then subsequently mortal tabernacles. Two books which explore this approach include The First Two Thousand Years, by Cleon Skousen, and Earth in the Beginning, by Eric Skousen.
One of the reasons a non-Mormon might misinterpret the Mormon view is because we have different definitions for so many of the same terms. This constitutes the major challenge in communication between Mormons and non-Mormons on matters of doctrine.
Congratulations on taking up the charge/command by the General Authorities in the July issue of the Ensign to flood the internet with the Mormon beliefs. I am happy to see this because it gives people an opportunity to expose Mormonism for what it is. I'm always entertained when the General Authorities ask the Church members to do their bidding for them when it comes to facing the outside world. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve don't engage in discussions about matters with anyone outside of Mormon "comfort zones". The General Authorities have as much Biblical knowledge and training as a new convert to the Church. These leaders are not theologians. They are retired businessmen, lawyers, scientists, doctors, bankers and airline pilots. They have no religious training or education outside of BYU. Don't believe it? Read their bios in the LDS Newsroom at LDS.org
What caught my eye about this blog was the title. I see that it's a take on the famous book called "Mormonism Unvailed" by E.D. Howe. This is a great book and exposes the lies of Mormonism and the false prophet that Joseph Smith is. Have you read the book? If not, give it a read. However, just like your disclaimer at the top of your web page, if you read this book you may become one of those apostates you talked about. You might join the ranks of 2/3 of the LDS Church that is permanently "out to lunch". That's right, out of 13 million members there are only about 4.5 million that are active. Why is that? They have discovered the facts about the false doctrines of Mormonism, that Joseph Smith is a false prophet for numerous reasons or they have given up trying to live the man-based, salvation by works religion that Mormonism is all about. Don't believe it? Watch a presentation by Paul Dehlin who is one of your own and lives in Logan, Utah. Do a YouTube search and see the presentation that he is giving at local wards. It's not going over well when the Mormons are finding out the truth. By the way, why the title of "Jack Mormon"? Seems odd you would choose that title which is degrading in Mormonism, but then create a blog to push the Mormon agenda...very confusing.
You stated two points in your opening statement: plurality of gods and becoming a god. I assume you want to talk about what you believe the Bible says in support of your view or the LDS view of this belief. One of the fundamental truths of Christianity is monotheism. This is the belief in one God. Polytheism is the belief in many gods. This is Mormonism and this right from the start excludes the Mormon Church from being labeled Christian. I know that the Mormons are desperate to have this recognition and title, but it is never going to happen and this is the first reason why. The Mormon Church is not a Christian denomination and there isn't one Christian denomination that recognizes them as so. Fact of the matter is, the Mormon Church is a non-Christian cult and polytheism is just one reason why.
No, there is not more than one God. Context? You must be kidding. Your butchering of the scriptures is laughable to anyone with a sound handle on Bible exegesis. It never ceases to amaze me the depths that Mormons will go to in explaining just about anything they possibly can from the Bible. The Bible teaches that there is more than one God? Guess what? The Bible teaches that God is a chicken (Psalm 91:4). God is also a blast furnace (Deut 4:24; Heb 12:29). Jesus is a door (John 10:9). Jesus is a loaf of bread (John 6:41). Jesus also has a sword for a tongue (Rev 1:16).
Our Mormon friends show their utter ignorance of the scriptures because they don't understand the use of metaphors in the Bible. Mormons have absolutely no training in hermeneutics. Never heard of it? I'm not surprised. It's the science of Biblical interpretation. If you don't understand hermeneutics, then you are left with a plurality of gods, a god that is a chicken because he has wings and feathers, the Son had a sword for a tongue, etc. This is a slippery slope in Mormonism.
It's easy for Mormons to dismiss the Bible as "not translate correctly". What are the Mormons doing about translating correctly? If it's not translated correctly then why have it as the standard works? Why have the LDS stamp that is on the side of my KJV Bible from the LDS Church? Why does the Mormon Church give the Bible away for free on TV and on the internet for free if it's not a reliable translation? The Mormon prophet and the aposltes are considered seers. The prophet is considered a translator. There are ancient manuscript copies in the original languages going back to the 1st century for every book in the Bible located in Europe and the Middle East. Why doesn't the First Presidency go there and translate the Bible correctly? Fact is, they don't know how so it's easier to pass out the KJV Bible with a disclaimer written on it. By the way, where are the golden plates to check the translation of the Book of Mormon? Not here? Are there any manuscripts to check anything in the Mormon scriptures? No. That should be a big problem with Mormons, but it's not. The Mormon Church wants to know why it has no credibility outside of Salt Lake City? That is one of the reasons why.
The Bible is translated correctly for the Mormons as long as it fits with their agenda. When it doesn't, then they cry "foul ball" and say it's not translated correctly. We're only scratching the surface on this topic and others. We haven't even started talking about the JST which IS complete. You need to do some research.
Serious students of the Bible in Christian seminaries from day one know and understand these facts when it comes to studying the Bible:
1. Scripture interprets scripture
2. Unclear or difficult texts in the Bible need to be compared to more clearer scripture that addresses the same issue.
3. When one's conclusion about a verse is in conflict with the more clearer scripture, then that person is wrong by default because God does not contradict Himself and He cannot lie (Heb 6:18).
4. Historical context of a text always needs to be taken into account.
John 10:30 - This verse proves there is more than one God? Mormons make the common mistake of not looking at the full text of a verse by not looking at the verses before and after it and not realizing who is being addressed and what the context is. This passage comes from Psalms 82:6. In John 10:34 Jesus could not be talking about people becoming gods because in verse 35 He says, "the scripture cannot be broken". Nobody is going to be like Him - ever. Questions:
1. Does Mormonism teach that men are gods now? (The text in John is in the present tense: "Ye ARE gods). No, Mormonism doesn't teach this.
2. Were the Jewish religious leaders (judges) who were the murderers of Jesus actually "gods"? No, according to Mormonism.
3. Were there men who became gods before Jesus? No, according to Mormonism.
Psalm 82:6 - Start in verse 1 and go through verese 8. What is the context? Judging. In all these texts notice the small "g" in gods (plural) and then the big "G" in God (singular). One is deity and the others are not. There is a big difference betwee the two. Look at the small "g" in verse 1 and the big "G" in verse 8. This text is talking about the judges of Israel. They became as "gods" in the eyes of the people ("mighty ones" - representatives). See Exodus 7:1 where God makes Moses appear to Pharoah as "a god" in his eyes. God is speaking of their office - not their essence. They were only judges. Don't believe this? Listen to the words of the man who wrote the LDS work on the Articles of Faith:
"Divinely appointed Judges Called 'gods': Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods'. To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. (James Talmage, "Jesus the Christ", p.501)
Now look at verse 7 of the text. Do gods die? Mormons don't think so. How do you reconcile this? When you think one day that you are going to become a god do you plan on dying?
[Deut 10; Psa 136] 1 Cor 8:5. I have lumped all these together because it is the same subject matter. Again, what is the context here? Look at verse 4 where it says, "sacrifice unto IDOLS". Paul is talking about idols. Verse 5 says "CALLED gods" and "lords many nad gods many". What is this referrig to? The idols as stated in verse 4! There are many gods and lords out there. They are idols. A person can make a god out of anything: a hobby, money, sex, power, etc. That doesn't make it THE God. The Bible calls Satan the "god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4. Does Mormonism teach that Satan is a god? Hardly not!
Paul says these idols are "dumb" in 1 Cor 12:2. Jeremiah 10:10-11 is devastating to the Mormon view because it says that "the gods will perish". These are the idols.
There is only one God by nature. Look at Galatians 4:8. There are no other gods "by nature". The Bible is very clear that there is only one God. If anybody would have known if there were more than one God it would have been Jesus. If there were other gods He wouldn't have said what He did in Mark 12:29. Jesus echoed Deut 6:4 where it says that "the Lord is one".
There is nothing hard to understand about Isaiah 43:10-12. To emphasize the point notice what God says in v. 10 with three words "KNOW", "BELIEVE ME" and "UNDERSTAND". Is that clear enough. No other God but Him - none formed, no other saviors. There is only one God by nature and essence. Mormons belief in a plurality of gods is outside of the Bible and their belief in thinking that they will become a god is also out of the Bible as well. God cannot lie (Heb 6:18) and He is not the author of confusion/contradiction (1 Cor 14:33) and He does not change (Malachi 3:6).
Mormons would be well advised to see what the consequences are for someone that taught a plurality of gods as Joseph Smith did in Deut 13:1-5. Take note of v. 2: "other gods". What was the consequence? Look at verse 5. That person would be put to death.
Joseph Smith died in a gun battle at Carthage Jail. He shot three people in the process in which two of those people died. (This is documented in LDS books). That excludes him from the title of martyr. The point is this: Joseph Smith can be so lucky to have died by bullets. Had he been around during the time of Moses and taught the doctrines that he did in the King Follet Discourse he would have been killed by a hail of rocks to his head instead of bullets to his belly.
Joseph Smith was a false prophet because he taught the plurality of gods. Because of this he is in outer darkness for all eternity. Mormons that choose to follow this false prophet will go there with him.
The real God of the Bible is not an exalted man living near a star called Kolob with a host of plural wives creating spirit children via celestial sex as the Mormons believe. This is outright paganism. The Mormons worship another Jesus, another spirit and have another gospel (2 Cor 11:4). The real Savior/God of the Bible will forgive you for your polytheism and paganism if you call out to Him. You can have forgiveness of all your sins and know for certainty that you have eternal life right this minute if you desire. The Mormon Jesus cannot save you. The Jesus of the Bible can. Come to him. From this day forward you cannot say that you did not know. On Judgement Day you will be held accountable for what you just read.
I say this in love for the Mormons. To not tell Mormons the truth is not the loving thing to do.
I just read your profile. I should have read this first. My, your an odd one for LDS Church aren't you. You believe it, but don't practice all of it. Where does that leave you? I guess the first place you can scratch off your list is the celestial kingdom.
You said, "All religions have some form of the truth." Wow, I've been hearing more and more of this from so-called "Mormons" as of late. Mormons, like yourself, should instead be calling themselves theosophists. Look up theosophy. See if that squares up with John 14:6.
I imagine the brethren in Salt Lake City aren't too happy with people like you. You are in that group of the 66% group of Mormons that are "jack" Mormons that are "out to lunch" (non-active) that Paul Dehlin talks about. Now I know why. Look, I don't blame you. Mormonism is a tough system to live by. Matter of fact, the Mormon gospel is the "impossible gospel". We should talk about that some time. With what you have learned from the Church I can see and understand how you and millions of others are confused. That is why so many ex-Mormons are athiests. After what the LDS Church has done to people I can see how a person coming out of that system believing in the Mormon folk tales as laid out in the Book of Mormon would feel the way they do.
You've got a lot of time on your hands working your blog. I make the time by talking to you on your blog because I care about your eternal welfare. Maybe you could take a little time and do some serious research into the Mormon religion outside of the LDS comfort zones. After all, it is your eternal destiny we are talking about.
LDS teach and believe God was once a man. Know God in the form of Jesus was a man, He came took on flesh and died for us, But JS teaches God was once a man like we are and exalted to Godhood and became a God. JS teaches this in the King Follet Discourse.
Below are quotes taken from the discourse that show JS saying he will show this from the Bible. He never did show this from Scripture and I would ask the LDS who believe this teaching to give Bible based support to show this is true. If you cannot pleae explain how JS is not a liar and false prophet and how you can believe him, despite evidence.
My first object is to find out the character of the only wise and true God, and what kind of a being he is; and if I am so fortunate as to be the man to comprehend God, and explain or convey the principles to your hearts, so that the Spirit seals them upon you, then let every man and woman henceforth sit in silence, put their hands on their mouths, and never lift their hands or voices or say anything against the man of God or the servants of God again.
I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man.
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.
In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the vail, so that you may see.
It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
Rick B
Joseph Smith taught we can become gods someday. I want to look at that idea and ask this, can we really become gods and if so, will we really have any sort of power?
Joseph Smith said and taught in the King Follet Discourse
Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,--namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one,--from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me.
I would like to point out that Joseph Smith said, Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God How can we become gods if their is only ONE TRUE GOD? Mormons will say, God is the only God we worship and have anything to do with, but that was not what Joseph Smith said. He said their is only ONE TRUE GOD.
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners, when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again, to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more; but they shall be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before.
Notice a few things in what Joseph smith taught. He said we shall inherit the same power. How is this possible? Lets look at Elijah and the prophets of Baal.
1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
1Ki 18:22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, [even] I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets [are] four hundred and fifty men.
1Ki 18:23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay [it] on wood, and put no fire [under]: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay [it] on wood, and put no fire [under]:
1Ki 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
1Ki 18:25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress [it] first; for ye [are] many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire [under].
1Ki 18:26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed [it], and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But [there was] no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
1Ki 18:27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he [is] a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, [or] peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
1Ki 18:28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
1Ki 18:29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the [time] of the offering of the [evening] sacrifice, that [there was] neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
1Ki 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD [that was] broken down.
1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
1Ki 18:32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.
1Ki 18:33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid [him] on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour [it] on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
1Ki 18:34 And he said, Do [it] the second time. And they did [it] the second time. And he said, Do [it] the third time. And they did [it] the third time.
1Ki 18:35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass at [the time of] the offering of the [evening] sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou [art] God in Israel, and [that] I [am] thy servant, and [that] I have done all these things at thy word.
1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou [art] the LORD God, and [that] thou hast turned their heart back again.
1Ki 18:38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that [was] in the trench.
1Ki 18:39 And when all the people saw [it], they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he [is] the God; the LORD, he [is] the God.
1Ki 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.
In these verses, Elijah told the people to call upon their "gods". Notice Elijah said gods plural, not God singular. The reason why I believe this is important is because, Joseph Smith taught we can become gods just like God himself. Yet as a result of these gods not answering, it showed they do not exist. And if they really do exist then they must have no real power, because the prophets of Baal were cutting them selves.
Some LDS might argue that only God is to be worshiped that is why these others did not answer. Even if your correct, the problem still remains, God claims He is the ONLY TRUE GOD, and their are no other gods. Then in the Pearl of great price, God claims to have sat in the counsel of gods. So why would God allow His children to be destroyed by not allowing these other gods to even show they exist?
You would think if God said their are no other gods but really ment their are, and we are to only worship Him and no others, you would think He would have said what He ment, so as to not have these prophets of Baal killed for trying to speak to other gods.
Then lets look at Lucifer and the book of Job. Mormons claim Lucifer is the brother to Jesus, so this would imply they are both Gods, and the Bible does say that Lucifer (Satan) is the god of this world. Yet in the Book of Job we read that Lucifer cannot touch Job unless God allows him to, then after He allows Lucifer to harm Job and kill his family, He does not allow Lucifer to kill Job. So God can and does limit other gods and creatures in the amount of power they have.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but save his life.
Joseph Smith said
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. When we begin to learn in this way, we begin to learn the only true God and what kind of a being we have got to worship. Having a knowledge of God, we begin to know how to approach him and how to ask so as to receive an answer.
As I pointed out before, How can it say, ONLY TRUE GOD, Yet we have other gods? And how can he say, God sat in the counsel of the gods, yet it seems they have no power from the verses I have quoted.
Here is another set of passages from the Bible I want to point out.
1Sa 5:1 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.
1Sa 5:2 When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.
1Sa 5:3 And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon [was] fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the LORD. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.
1Sa 5:4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon [was] fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands [were] cut off upon the threshold; only [the stump of] Dagon was left to him.
1Sa 5:5 Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.
1Sa 5:6 But the hand of the LORD was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them with emerods, [even] Ashdod and the coasts thereof.
1Sa 5:7 And when the men of Ashdod saw that [it was] so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god.
The false god fell before the Ark of the Lord and the false god's hands and feet were broken. So much for being a god.
Then we read
Judge's 6:9 And I delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all that oppressed you, and drave them out from before you, and gave you their land;
Judge's 6:10 And I said unto you, I [am] the LORD your God; fear not the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but ye have not obeyed my voice.
God tells us not to fear the other gods. This tells me He does not fear them and they must not have much if any power. So will you become a god someday? and if so, will you have any power? if we are always less powerful than the god above us, and their is millions of gods, then it seems to me we wont be much of a god after all, plus God says their are no other gods but Him alone. Rick B
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